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Operator · Operator
Ted Pick
Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for joining us. In the third quarter, Morgan Stanley generated record top and bottom line performance with revenues of $18.2 billion and EPS of $2.80. Robust returns on tangible of 23.5% reflect the operating leverage of the integrated firm. The capital markets flywheel is taking hold as the administration seeks to execute on its three-pronged strategy to reshape the economy with Fed rate cuts likely to continue into next year.
Across public and private markets, institutional and retail clients are engaged, seeking trusted advice and global access from investment bankers, financial advisers, and market specialists. From 2024, a top priority for the team has continued to be the reaffirmation of Morgan Stanley's strategy to raise, manage, and allocate capital. And over time to execute on a higher plane when favorable capital markets environments permit.
Our business model is activity-based. And while we cannot control the broader economic and market backdrop, the heart of the Morgan Stanley investment thesis remains our delivering earnings and returns durability alongside continued dividend growth through periods of uncertainty. This focus on maintaining earnings durability and driving earnings growth is governed by execution, rigor, inside the lanes of the priorities outlined in our annual strategy deck.
The readout of sequential EPS results during this period underscores ownership of earnings growth and durability against different economic backdrops. 02/2188, 02/20/2260, 02/13, and now February. Morgan Stanley is well positioned in each of our businesses and is demonstrating consistent execution. Total client assets across wealth and investment management are up $1.3 trillion over the last year, have reached $8.9 trillion.
In Wealth, our scale and client reach continue to drive performance. Reported margins were a full 30%. We added $81 billion of net new assets and $42 billion in fee-based flows in the quarter. Investment Management continues to scale capabilities with sustained leadership from Parametric. Across all three regions, our institutional securities business delivered outstanding results. Our equities business affirmed its number one position with a standout quarter.
A rebound in the investment banking environment reopened the door to strategic M&A and renewed financing activity. The equity underwriting result was also industry-leading this quarter. Which speaks to the power of our integrated investment bank. With respect to the bank regulatory capital framework, regulators are moving toward a more balanced approach. Executing on their prudential oversight responsibilities, and more leveling the competitive playing field were the largest best-capitalized financial institutions can once again act as a primary engine to drive sustainable economic growth.
Morgan Stanley specifically appreciates the Fed's recent reconsideration of our CCAR results we look forward to ongoing dialogue and transparency. Our excess CET1 capital stands at over 300 basis points. Periods of economic and geopolitical uncertainty were to be expected. As we transition from the post-pandemic period we called the end of the end of history to a period we now could call the continuation of history.
A period in which the push and pull of industrial policy national identity, and technological innovation will continue to be front of mind for our clients and stakeholders. Morgan Stanley will continue to capture opportunities the world through cycles, staying close to our clients, as they raise, manage, and allocate capital. We're actively investing in the integrated firm, across wealth and investor management institutional securities, across our bank and infrastructure units.
We are deploying capital and expanding capabilities through the wealth funnel and enhancing the global distribution of our asset management offerings. As macro uncertainty and enormous opportunity, uncomfortably coexist, our 2025 year-to-date results demonstrate both the capability and the capacity to deliver earnings durability and generate operating leverage against shifting economic and geopolitical backdrops. Morgan Stanley's strategy remains consistent and our durable earnings and capital strength are clear.
The quarter's performance across wealth and investment management alongside the strength across institutional securities in all three regions, underscores the proposition of the integrated firm. We are focused on generating strong returns for our shareholders and have real degrees of flexibility to pursue growth opportunities across our core businesses. We are committed to advancing through $10 trillion in total client assets and on to the next phase of Morgan Stanley's growth trajectory.
As the firm celebrates its ninetieth anniversary we are as ever focused on executing first-class business in a first-class way. Across the integrated firm for our clients, our shareholders, and our colleagues. Sharon will now take us through the quarter in greater detail.
Questions & answers
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
Please go ahead. Good morning, Dan. Good morning, Dan. Good morning. Morning.
Dan Fannon
Q1
Ted, I was hoping you could just talk about the environment. You've been quite bullish all year. Obviously, a great quarter. Can talk about the sustainability of these trends, maybe the of the backlog in investment banking, the diversity and you know, how that compares to maybe prior periods. Yes.
Ted Pick
The question is the right setup. Whether we are entering a golden age in investment banking remains to be seen, but it has been now several years of chatter around green shoots, and now the flywheel is taking hold. It's happening across industry groups. It's happening across regions. It's happening against a generally more favorable regulatory backdrop. It's happening at a time where there is deglobalization and reglobalization depending on where you are.
How you're looking at it. And obviously the need to defees the cost of endogenous AI. So that sets up for a very interesting environment for strategics who now will compete for product with sponsors in each region and in each major industry. We've been spending considerable time and capital on building our investment banking core. And the fruits of that are seen in both the equity and debt underwriting number and an advisory number that continues to pick up.
And to what you're alluding to, Dan, the pipeline looks very good. Across all three regions. So we are optimistic. Now of course, the world is an uncertain place, and there could be pauses depending on how geopolitics feel. But generally, speaking, the investment banking product category over the next couple of years should be generally up into the right.
Dan Fannon
Q1
Great. Thank you. That's helpful. And then Sharon, I was hoping you could expand upon your comments around just the NNA growth within the wealth channel. You talked about workplace and the IPO market being a contributor. Maybe if there's a way to contextualize that a bit more and also just talk about the other channels in terms of the momentum there as well. Thank you.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
Hi, Ebrahim.
Ebrahim Poonawala
Q2
Hey, Ted. I had a question on the pretax margin hitting 30% I know you kind of removed all the pluses and the signs when you took over as CEO, but it's coming up a lot more frequently in our conversations with investors is when we look beyond one, you think you achieved a point where the 30% pretax margin is sustainable? And again, I'm not saying you're changing your guidance, but I'm just wondering when you think about the outlook and all the productivity improvements, etcetera, is the risk that the 30% is drifting higher, or moving lower in terms of when we think about the medium-term outlook?
Ted Pick
Thanks for your question. It's incredibly important that we continue to understand that the investment dollars go into that wealth business to broaden and deepen the funnel flywheel that Sharon just described. Whether it is putting more dollars in the pro product in E Trade where we're also focused on upping deposits, whether it's investing in adjacent digital asset product whether it's in deepening our relationships at the corporate workplace, center or it's ultimately in our financial advisers we're going to continue to put investment dollars into the system.
Now whether that with continued operating leverage gets us to a number that is higher than 30 over time. Let's see how it goes. But right now, what's important for everyone to see that we had a reported number in a reasonably friendly environment that was, I believe, 30.3%. But that is an output, not an input. So the continued input is our investment dollars to drive PBT growth and what is most exciting about what the wealth team has done is to drive revenues and to drive overall growth in each piece of the funnel.
Ebrahim Poonawala
Q2
Got it. And I guess just in terms of you mentioned a friendly environment. There's so much discussions around whether there's an AI bubble. We are in the late nineties in terms of where we are in the cycle. Just talk to us when you think about both sides of the business, investment banking, and as you're getting insights from how your clients on the wealth side are thinking about things, just how do you handicap that risk of where we might be in the cycle? And what has history taught us of what that implies for your revenue or growth outlook.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
Good morning, Ted. It's Sharon. Yeah. Christian. Ted.
Christian Bolu
Wanted to follow-up on wealth management and your outlook for that business. Just given your leverage to private markets and technology technology sectors through Solium or your Carter partnership, I'd imagine you should be an outside beneficiary of the wealth creation around sort of the AI CapEx cycle. Curious how you see that. And then how does how does how does that influence your outlook for sort of five to 7% organic growth over time?
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Christian Bolu
Thank you. And then on equities, really nice nice growth there, and it's been a consistent pattern of share gains in that business for a while now. Just remind us again, kinda what's driving share gains there, and then where do you see further opportunities going forward?
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Brennan Hawken
Q4
Good morning. Thanks for questions.
Ted Pick
Hey. How are doing, Ted?
Brennan Hawken
Q4
Talk to you again.
Ted Pick
I'd love to drill into the Carta relationship.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Brennan Hawken
Q5
Thanks for that, Sharon. And and thanks for the warm welcome back. I appreciate it. When you think about that added access, right, plus the the the strong and established business that you have in Solium that has that veers a little bit more privates. I know you guys don't call. You know what I mean. How much more substantial is that base versus 2021 when we last saw robust capital markets
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Glenn Schorr
Q6
Good morning. Quick one first.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Glenn Schorr
Q7
K. Awesome. I appreciate that. Bigger picture, Ted, I'm I'm curious. You agree with everything you said. The regulatory frame capital framework is is hopefully gonna be more balanced. You got an 80 basis point refund recently. As you mentioned, you have over 300 of excess capital, and you're making tons of money. So I think the buybacks and dividends are good. But my big question is, are there areas that you could deploy more kappa at a higher pace into to drive growth?
Your your return on tangible equity is hardly anything to complain about. But it is a big denominator. Are there areas that could deploy at a faster pace, whether it be organic or inorganic? That would just broaden the platform, make the company better, drive future growth.
Ted Pick
Well, Glenn, as you say, that's the key question. The dividend is now $1 share. That is sacrosanct and we'll continue to grow that along The buyback has been opportunistic. We'll continue to buy shares back. Maybe at a slightly higher cadence. But we're going to continue to view that as a tactical lever. As you know, over the last year plus, we've accreted $7 billion $810 billion of capital dating back a number of quarters.
So that, of course, has been effectively capital put in the piggy bank. As we think about investment, heard Sharon talk about a whole bunch of that. The best uses of capital continue to be internal investment into the business and to the integrated firm. Those are can either be adjacent investments they can be a little more orthogonal, like, digital assets or something that is kinda new and offers diversification effect.
But they're all in the cylinders of the strategy around wealth investment manager and then the investment bank. The mantra has been to scale with our key clients to build out product capabilities to invest in technologies why I thought it was great that Sharon into some detail on some of the technologies that are are being born as we speak. Some of them are efficiency driven, some of them are effectiveness driven. If you think about the kind of locus of the integrated firm is, it's around the key decision makers at these banking or asset management clients or our wealth management clients where they are the primary decision maker for strategic financing or catalyst events, which of course, dovetails with the investment banking wave that is kicking in now.
And we are investing a lot of dollars whether it's in the Markets business intra quarter or it is through our wealth clients either directly or indirectly. So E*TRADE PRO is effectively an investment, it just happens to be an internal one. Sharon has spoken at some length around workplace and connectivity of private companies in Carta. Think about what we're doing with zero hash and building out the full wallet. Some of this stuff we can either harkening back to the equities days of fifteen years ago, we might buy, we might build, we might lease, but those are investments that are made inside the business and eventually for the benefit of our our financial advisers.
We're also building out our bank That is a a key channel that we are much focused on. As you know, Glenn, and that's gotten a lot of dollars and attention too. So the organic opportunity is the one that clears the bar and checks the most boxes. And that's gonna be the continuing strong bias of the group. That having been said, we are well aware of the capital cushion. We do have thanks to the better part of fifteen years of mister Gorman.
We have been well versed and trained around the thinking on the inorganic. Whether it fits in the strategy, whether the culture's right, whether the timing makes sense, and then ultimately whether the price works. Strategy, culture, timing, price. And right now, there is a lot of product that is coming at us. But in virtually every case, Glenn, feel we can do the build internally. Organically. And for the last two years, I think you'd agree what's been most important in the delivery of our management team, which has worked together for ten, fifteen, twenty years, beginning, of course, with Dan and Andy leading the firm and then Sharon, Eric, Charles, and then the rest of the operating committee that for the last two years, we've been focused on what we're gonna do and putting up the numbers.
And that hasn't been at the total expense of the inorganic. But we have felt comfortable continuing to make the case that there is growth both in wealth and investment management and then durably inside the investment bank. And that the sum of those two would be greater than the whole in the context of the integrated firm, that it would not just be kinda sales y, but it would be something that the right kind of market environment would offer operating leverage.
So in a sense, it's been the little picture. The little picture of both kinda know, squirreling away some chestnuts, but then also building out the income statement making sure that there's manifestly operating leverage against the uncertainty of geopolitics and transitioning economy. And then over time, we can consider carefully whether the inorganic ticks all four boxes, strategy, culture, timing, price, and whether we wanna fold something in.
As you well know, this firm has successfully integrated Smith Barney, Solium, E Trade, and Eaton Vance But there is such a thing as winner's curse in the financial services space. And we were not about to make that mistake. We don't need to put up a print for the sake of it. We are very excited, by the way, on our announcement on Zero Hash. We think it's great. We're building out the full wallet. And we will be ready to go as we move into 2026.
But whether we continue to compound the wealth and asset management base through $10 trillion organically or whether we do something inorganically it'll have to fit the test. But I wanted to give you a sense that, of course, we think very much about the big picture. Know, forest to the trees, but we also in this two year period, have been very much focused on the little picture, the speck on the rug and making sure that we have numbers that are clean and that sustain the valuation that the market has awarded us, and then we move forward with a capital buffer that is 250 to 300 basis points plus.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Erika Najarian
Q8
Hi. Good morning, Erika. Just one follow-up.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
And the bigger picture here is that being a private company, a successful private company, over the last number of years, as you know, Erica, the old rule of thumb was when you had a certain number of beneficial owners or a certain level of wealth created, you need it to go public if for no other reason to to fees employee stock option plans and to have currency to get bigger through acquisition. The reality is that the democratization of the private channel and the ability for companies to stay private longer has been has been one that has very much taken hold and for lack of better words, been institutionalized over the last five, ten years. So being a private company, a good private company, has been a good thing.
And and the street has been helpful in offering sponsors additional space beyond the ten year fund to continue to keep the winners in house. At the same time, being a public company has not been that great. The regulation got, as you know, much tougher, and the just sort of the the the reality of being a mid cap or even small cap company that may be orphaned, and still has to comply with the the regulatory burden, is tough.
So one of the things that we think is going on here is that with some rebalancing of the regulatory framework, the ability to go public the ability to go public perhaps earlier and to draw the attention of new issue investors who were not cleaning up a secondary sale of a financial sponsor but in fact or a strategic investor, but in fact, are coming in where there's still plenty of growth and is sort of going public discount premium that makes it an exciting asset class again we're optimistic about that. The reality is the sponsors have have not moved as fast. Because they've had the ability to sustain these capital structures as private companies.
That has its pluses. That has its minuses. What's changed, though, is that as we notwithstanding all of the concerns with elements of the three-pronged strategy, the demonstrated success of prong one and now much of prong two. And clearly, prong three, I. E. Deregulation, which will be very much a pro business and hopefully pro broader economy phenomenon, makes it more interesting for the strategic buyer to or the seller, in fact, if they wanna purify their portfolio to go in and do something.
To do something on a cross border basis, to know that there are regulators gonna give it a thumbs up or thumbs down, versus stymieing it for uncertain periods. There may be deals in the national interest that won't go through. But the entire proposition of mid to large to mega cap M and A has been one that has not been on the table for a long time. If there's going to be large cap m and a across growth industries around the world, there will also be an IPO market as they work symbiotically in terms of attracting growth capital to grow the winners.
Erika Najarian
Q8
Great.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
Thanks, Erica. Move.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Devin Ryan
Q9
Morning, Devin. I want to start with a question on wealth management net interest income. Obviously, it really benefited short term rates rose in in prior years. And I heard Sharon's comment for a modest increase in NII in 4Q even as the Fed is now starting to lower rates. And so I think what's becoming more clear is there's a lot of natural hedges in the model there. Balances, sec lending, pledged assets, stabilization and kind of the brokerage sweep balances.
So I'm just curious, as we think about rates now starting to move lower and perhaps the first 100 basis points of cuts, do you see a scenario where GWM NII can actually grow? And then can you just talk a little bit more about some of these hedge impacts as we get the other side of this? Yeah. Absolutely. I'll take the question. There you know, we'll we will review 2026 guidance in 2026. But sitting for where we are today,
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Devin Ryan
Q10
That that's great color. Thanks, Sharon. And just a quick follow-up on the equities trading results. Obviously, feels like the bar keeps moving higher here. And you referenced the growth in financing and kind of record results there. Can you just give us a sense of kind of what the growth function has looked like in financing relative to intermediation over the past couple of years? And then just what the the mix kind of looks like there today and how that's evolved as well? Because it just feels like you're building kind of a higher base overall in equities, and love to just get a little more sense there. Thank you.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
Yeah. I mean, to be to echo that, we're at 6,700 S and P, and you know, index asset price highs around the world. So if there is a deleveraging event or just lower let's say, there's a a sort of recession scare and the markets are lower, well, definition, the financing revenues will be lower. I mean, they're they they are they are linked in that sense as you know, inextricably. What is what is an interesting development, though, inside of equities is, first of all, as global as ever, as Sharon has talked about, we have a business that is thriving both in in Asia, which is, as you know, multiple locations and then also in Europe, again, multiple locations But then also the development of our derivatives business liquid derivatives and the cash business, once thought to be one that would be totally electronified, that is being run very much as a barbell with the best in class, NSAID product, as you're aware of, but also, one where the high touch old school research, sales driven product with a world class research department with folks who have been at Morgan Stanley for twenty, twenty five, thirty years.
Who are embedded with our asset managers and are able to help them capitalize in a market now that is rewarding dispersion across strategies and across waiting. So the first time in a generation you have real dispersion amongst our clients, which means they are looking for intellectual capital. We can offer that. And that there is real real ability now to monetize that not just in the classic financing pie, but also across cash and derivatives.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Mike Mayo
Q11
Ted, hey. In the past, you said it's the moment of I think, boat wow. And I guess it's playing out. And you mentioned IPOs, mergers, the flywheel. You mentioned US, Europe, Asia, Mid, large, major corporate. So it seems like a lot's going on. But I think the question is, can you size where we are in the capital market cycle? Like, what inning are we in? Are you over earning, under earning? Just if you can dimension this for us. Thanks.
Ted Pick
Well, I mean, you you've been at this long enough to know that the the the the typical answer that one would give would be driven by where we are in the economic cycle. And I'm just not sure it's working that way this time. There is clearly pent up pent up supply of product. And Ideaflow that, as we've talked about, stems back from the earliest days of the pandemic. Whether it's embedded in sponsor portfolios or it has been sort of ideas in the making inside of the EU or Greater China or Japan or obviously in The United States.
So some of that inventory is meant to come. There's also the reality of almost like a Mika esque you know, big size creates category killers. And the the regulatory on large cap M and A has also been kind of an unnatural constraint to the supply of large cap mergers that now need to happen to defuse the costs of AI. So I think those are all tailwinds. What I am less certain about and I wouldn't want to be caught on the wrong side of kind of a nebulin take on the world is there is a lot of geopolitical uncertainty by definition.
And there is considerable uncertainty around how a K economy manifests itself in terms of Fed policy and then fiscal response function. I mean, to just ignore that would be silly. And the markets have come a long way. Then there's also the reality that the private capital class has been democratized over a relatively short period of time. So there will be there will be occasions where folks are gonna find out things they don't like around liquidity or issues, whether, by the way, those are public or private companies.
So I I I don't think it's just blue sky, all boats steaming. What I do think is that for the first time in a long time, the largest investment banks that have global enterprises, that have invested in world class corporate finance bankers, who can offer the full set of global idea flow and then risk management around uncertainty through an M and A announcement, which is not just regulatory uncertainty, but it could be foreign exchange, It could be the hedging of interest rates. And then through to the complexity of a rights offering or sub IPO, that entire daisy chain Mike, probably takes us back to something that feels like the mid 90s, for example.
It could take us back to periods that are in the mid-00s before credit got out of hand, where you have real companies that are getting out and doing back to basics corporate finance The difference now is you need the full kit. You need the full global support. And it has been, as you've pointed out, and rightly pointed out, a lot of talk about a lot of green shoots for a heck of a long time. So some folks have blinked.
And other folks have continued to invest And we feel good about that opportunity over the next three to five years. But will there be periods where the windows could well shut because the geopolitical uncertainty takes us to risk off or asset prices correct, Absolutely. In which case, which which companies you bank, which ideas are going to actually be the ones that win the day, that's where winning and losing is gonna be is gonna be made amongst the global investment banking group.
Mike Mayo
Q11
So your staffing and resourcing for this capital market cycle for the next three or four years or so?
Ted Pick
Yeah. We have we have the kind of tension inside where on the one hand, we have we have an installed base because, as you know, introducing new bankers on what is sort of the longest sale It's like a financial adviser that this is, like, the key event for the for the CEO, the CFO, the founder. They don't wanna meet someone new. The installed base has to have been there, which is why a lot of the hiring we did, we did over the last three to five years.
On the other hand, you don't want to overhire because you know that investment banks tend to behave pro cyclically. So is there some tension in the system? From folks who want us to have more bodies in front of 3,000,000,000 to $5,000,000,000 market cap companies to get that sell side. Yes, there is. And I think that's a good thing. When the tension is like three, four, that feels right. If it's one, that means you're probably overdone.
As you would point out, then you've got a purge and reset, and it kinda messes up the narrative. And if it's a seven or eight, that means, obviously, we haven't made a decision about where we wanna have leadership. And we wanna have leadership in the core trusted adviser bracket. The integrated firm proposition, of course, is that you may be trusted advisor or founder, and that founder may have a relationship with a wealth manager And that wealth manager then can work with the investment banker, and it's not forced behavior It's behavior that is something that is unnatural because we've been at it together for a long time.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Chris McGratty
Q12
Great. Thank you. You said your good morning. Ted, you talked about the 300 basis points of excess relative to minimums. I guess a two part question just a follow-up. Number one, what's the right level of management buffer there? How how that might be evolving and and, perhaps the algebra behind it? That's the first question.
Sharon Yeshaya · Operator
Ted Pick
And I don't know if this is algebra, Chris, but the way I would I would I would sort of think about it is in line with what Sharon just said is I believe in the last call, said 200 plus. And we were at 15 for the quarter. And, obviously, the the you know, there's there's isolation from period to period. But we were at 200. Plus, I said. We said. Right? And then then this quarter went from 15 to fifteen two notwithstanding, obviously, the payout of dividend and the buyback.
Because we just accreted more capital. We also, during the period received the reconsideration on CCAR from the Fed to the tune of another 80 basis points. So 80 plus 20, that's 100. And so I'd say the 200 goes to two fifty plus in the spirit of conservatism. Taking 50 out of the 100. Alright? So 200 on sort of 200 plus was the prior, two fifty plus feels like the way to say it. Sure. We could say more because the actual number is three forty.
The implied buffer is there. I think others have said colleagues on prior calls, and I I would much agree with and repeat, the the algebra, as you say, around the number by definition, you need to have effectively a buffer on a buffer because of the regulatory uncertainty which which nodule is the governor and then the entire process of going through submissions and the like, hoping some simplification some additional transparency, which we're much seeing from the Fed and the other regulators, we are it's early days, but really heartened by that. There's more of a common sense approach to this.
I should, by definition, over time, prudently lower the size of anyone's buffer because they just know predictably what framework they are being measured by as opposed to the uncertainty underlying the test itself. In times that are relatively not uncertain for large, well capitalized banks fifteen years after Dodd Frank. So that would be the way to think about it. In terms of the size of the buffer But if you wanted to just jot down a number, I'd say two fifty plus is a comfortable way to to go from here.
Did you have another question? Oh, no. Looks like you'll like we're we're moving here. We're moving. Our next question comes from Saul Martinez with HSBC. Hey, good morning. Okay, Saul. Saul, you're you're the last you're the last one up. I'm getting I'm getting signals that you're you're you're Okay. You're clean up. So let's make it a really a softball softball softball here at 10:40, please. I'll I'll I'll do my best.
I think I'll I'm gonna ask a question you think in a way you've been you've been asked a few times. About the sustainability of of the results in institutional securities. But I I guess I'll ask it a little bit more bluntly. You know, you did 20% ROTCE. This quarter.
Saul Martinez
Q12
Through nine months, 17%. Know, I guess, can you sustain this type of profitability in in institutional security? Because it would imply that given your business makes, you know, you would imply that your Roth here consolidated level would be above 20%. And, you know, IBCs obviously, this quarter, you know, very strong at levels we haven't seen since 02/2021. Obviously, a lot of room for optimism for for a lot of reasons.
You've highlighted, Ted, but we are, you know, really in a sweet spot if you choose markets businesses are also humming and and doing you know, extremely well. So I'm I'm just curious your perspective. Is it an environment where you know, investment banking continues to grow over a multiyear period is it consistent with you know, a backdrop where market's revenues can be sustained at these levels or even grow given these businesses too.
Benefit from a volatile economic and market backdrops, you know, recognizing that they're know, many sources of durability too and perhaps more than there have been in the past. But don't know if that's a softball question, but I'll try to put a bow on the conference call. And leave you with that one.
Ted Pick
Yeah. I I thought you said it nicely. I wouldn't go call softball. It's a sort of medium ball, but a very fair a very fair question. And sort of a of a cousin of Mike's question. Look. Again, 6,700 S and P you are going to have businesses that are going to if you if you execute well, you're gonna have performance, assuming the operating model is well functioning, and tight credit spreads the financing flywheel should work.
If you have lower asset prices, and deleveraging and credit spreads widen because there's recession concern, or an inflation scare, my guess is markets businesses generally are going to perform less well. I mean, that there's no untying that link. So some of this has to be driven by whether you think we are at the early stages of reacceleration of growth in The US economy and then the global economy. And there are signs that that is happening.
Or you think you're actually in a later stage of market evolution, I. E, the economy may be Okay, but the markets have had a huge run risk assets have had a huge run, and we are going to chop around or even trade lower in which case then the markets businesses are generally on the street going to have to work through that. That having been said, we spent a lot of time doing everything we can to make sure that there is durability inside of these businesses that we are an essential one, two, three partner to the largest asset managers with whom we are wedded to and that we are doing business that we think is right in line with advising our clients.
That we you see it, the VAR ticks up, but not dramatically. That the use of capital is is prudent, but that we are connecting not just inside of equities, but across fixed income I'd call out, by the way, that the performance of the fixed income business for the last whole bunch of quarters has been remarkably stable. That speaks to the management of that business. As a part of a durable narrative inside of the investment bank, but then across the firm.
The investment banking flywheel, again, is also activity based and economically sensitive. But we do think that the pent up supply there is going to have to come. And we do believe that in the investment banking and capital markets new issue arena, we are gaining share. We would be seeking to do that. Globally over the next year or two years. And then as it relates to the Markets business, I. E, sales and trading of stocks and bonds, we want to do it prudently.
We're not looking to overreach We are well aware of what the underlying valuation narrative is for Morgan Stanley. We want to serve our clients. We want to help fill capacity and capability for them. But we are going to continue to have a high bar on what new business we take on. And how it generates incremental margin.
Operator · Operator
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